Well, this is ironically my first autism-related post in quite awhile, but I feel it is one worth making. When I was significantly younger (roughly between the ages of 1 and 4) I did not have an official diagnosis of autism or Asperger's (that didn't come until age 6) but I engaged in socially inappropriate behavior that, had I been older, could've gotten me arrested. When I was in a public place (such as a mall, airport, or grocery store but usually not a baseball stadium) I would shout "We're gonna go see the people!" and then proceed to grab a complete stranger (usually grown men) around the legs, throwing them off balance. I was much shorter than they were (as I was less than 3 feet tall back then) so it was shocking, startling, and off-putting. Not only was it socially inappropriate, but it was obnoxious, invasive, and rude. The grown man would usually get very pissed off, and tell my mother to control her child better. She would in turn get mad at them for not understanding, even though I had no diagnosis yet. I, on the other hand, saw nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, when my parents tried to explain to me that these people were strangers, I got very offended, because they weren't strange at all. I thought they weren't strangers, they were people, and it was rude to call them strange. After all, I didn't say "We're gonna go see the strangers!" That was not the extent of my social issues. Once, I pickpocketed a woman's keys at the Bridgeport Zoo, although she was fairly nice and simply explained that if she didn't have her keys, she wouldn't be able to go home and see her children. Also, one time at Roxbury Park with my grammaw, there was this woman (who happened to be a psychologist) who I just randomly walked up to and started playing with her necklace. The psychologist then informed my grammaw that I had no body boundaries. It took us forever to find out what was wrong with me, and you can read more about that in the Autism Heroes book.
Oftentimes, a woman would run into me at the mall or at Target, and ask me if I wanted to do print ads or commercials or music video shoots. My mother would always have to politely decline, because my autism was not always apparent in public unless I was having a behavioral episode. However, I still cannot go to malls (due to my fear of heights) or to farmland (due to my fear of chickens) and I am very reluctant to go out into public at all due to my fear of normal people. If I had been cured of my autism biomedically at a younger age, perhaps I would've avoided all this, but God only knows. At baseball games, my social skills were always on top form, but let's not forget my Raffi concert experience (which can be the topic of another post).
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I just want to point out that the first anecdote you made isn't really an Autism or Aspergers thing, that's just a three-year-old thing. The rest obviously is something you'd generally only see happening with someone on the Spectrum. The rest of your commentary I'm going to refrain from refuting, because, while I do enjoy repeat repeating myself, there is a limit to how many times I do it and then get bored.
How many 3-year-olds do you actually know?? It's common for all three year olds to not be aware of physical boundaries, and to also be more outgoing to strangers before they learn how unwise it is. Do you know how many times a toddler has walked up to me gotten real close and said "hi" to me, and every single other passersby.
And like I said all the other anecdotes aren't things that neurotypical kids have tendencies to do, but if you actually know anything about 3-year-olds, than that one is very "normal."
"Most normal 3-year-olds are taught that it's not OK to "go see the people." I was less receptive to that,"
Ever hear of this thing called Stubborn Personality Disorder, it may be common amongst people on the Spectrum, but isn't exclusive to people on the Spectrum.
"Andrew, that is no such DSM diagnosis and I do not suffer from it."
I didn't say there was, my point was that it is a common personality trait even amongst neurotypicals, and that is what the story is an example of, that an youthful ignorance.
No, I'm not going to the Lion's Game, the only football team I like in my State are the Wolverines GO BLUE!!! And I'm also a Pats, Broncos, and Redskins Fan. But don't really give a shit about the Lions, no real reason to other than location, and that isn't enough for me, personally.
"It's possible that autistic people and normal people could have similar traits, but normal people usually don't show that big a disregard for social rules."
First of all I think you're having a hard time differentiating between a three-year-old, with people significantly older than 3. The behavior in that particular anecdote is typical for a three-year-old. Had that behavior continued longer than it's natural course, which I'd say is over the age of five, then that would be a Spectrum thing, because ASDs have a tendency to linger on certain things that most kids grow out of quicker.
Also, disregard for social rules is not an ASD thing. Lack of awareness, understanding, and comprehension of social rules is an ASD thing. If we understand, are aware and comprehend the significance of a rule it is more of an ASD thing to follow that to the point of compulsion. Of every single person I know when they first got their license, when I got mine I respected traffic safety the most by a far margin. Despite rumors of how easy it is to drive while high on weed, I will never drive while high on weed, because that is something we aren't supposed to do and for good reason. If a rule makes sense to us, it is an ASD thing to follow it.
Speaking of weed. While it is true that we may be more rebellious against rules that we deem unfit, a fellow Conservative man like yourself should appreciate this mindset, that to break a protectionist rule is to break a rule that shouldn't exist.
Disregard is the wrong word, the right word is the social equivalent to dyslexia, as penned by Dr. Richard Howlin.
Okay, here's another interpretation of this "seeing the people" episode.
You had no social boundaries then. You didn't know the social meaning of the word "stranger". Because you hadn't been DXed at the time that was a hold back for you. Now it's that experience (not Autism itself) that is causing your anxiety issues. Think about it. Because an Autistic has limited social instinct (on average) the only way to learn social skills is through logic and experience. Okay? Good experience = social confidence. Bad experience = social isolation. Following me on this?
Now I would suggest that your fear of malls (or shopping centres as we call them) isn't just heights. It's people as well. Malls are usually full of them. You probably have the same fear when it comes to traveling by bus. Wholly understandable, but (and I emphasis this) it is NOT your Autism that is causing it. Anxiety conditions such as this are common in NT's as well. Stage fright is one. Panic attacks are another. It is not something exclusive to Autism.
The whole point is that you can overcome these issues - and still be on the Spectrum. I try to get a corner to myself on the bus - there are sometimes single seats and if it's available I grab it. It works. I also try to avoid travel during peak periods. Of course sometimes that's not possible, but I suck it up. Stick to malls that only have one level (they do exist) and go early in the morning when there are less people about. Not every farm is a chicken farm - so there would be ones that don't. Check them out - and the space is just what an Autistic would want.
And never give up your baseball. What you said about your social skills there matches me with the football. It's a good thing - never forget that. What you need is positives.
I hope I caused you to reflect differently on your bad "people" experience and had you think a bit about anxiety seperate to the Spectrum. That's the way to cope better - and you don't need a cure to do that.
One more thing - Andrew is right. Every toddler wants to meet the people. The strangers thing doesn't start until what we call kindergarten (Don't know what you call it in the US).
And I'm gonna get ya for eating all them chickens!
"I will let a stranger sit next to me, but I will not engage in conversation and will sliently and non-verbally indicate when I need to get off the bus."
I'm pretty sure that makes you look "not normal" moreso than had you talked a tad bit.
" It's just like how when you use the men's room, you do not engage in conversation so as not to seem homosexual."
People who do that don't look like homosexuals they look like idiots who don't know they're not supposed to do that, that example there looks more like someone on the Spectrum than any of the other ones you gave. Because, you or I don't do that, because we know not to do that, because we were likely taught not to do that, but if other people on the Spectrum don't learn that then they likely do it, and look really off in that situation.
"It all depends, Andrew. If they attempt to talk to me, I will be polite and respond, but I feel that randomly striking up a coversation with them would make me seem autistic and rather "special," if you get what I'm saying."
No, I don't get what you're saying, if you randomly striking up a conversation with the person sitting next to you would make you "seem Autistic and rather "special"" then wouldn't the person sitting next to you randomly striking up a conversation with the person next to him (you) make him "seem Autistic and rather "special""?
Also saying nothing the whole time and nonverbally indicating that you are getting off, makes the person assume one of two things you're nonverbal, or you're a total dick. So it'd probably be better to at least say a few words and indicate verbally when you are leaving. Afterall when a guy sits next to you, it is a social rule to greet the person, and when you leave the seat it's a social rule to say goodbye. So you're breaking two social rules with your current modus operandi, something you said is something screamingly autistic. So I suggest you follow a new plan that actually achieves what you want it to in this situation. And I find it pretty hard to imagine that somebody could fuck up so bad that they don't look "normal" when saying the words "Hi." and the words "Well, that's my stop, have a good day, sir."
"Normal people know when it's appropriate to talk to strangers and when it's not, but autistic people don't. Therefore, they must be told to avoid talking at all times."
Not true. I've learned this, therefore you have no excuse. If somebody at VGW actually told you this that Autistic people should not speak to others, then I want his name, so I can call people and make sure he loses his job. Because that is unethical to say such a thing.
"I had to learn it through various social skills programs, to the point where it equals that of most normal people."
If that is true then why the fuck are you so worried about interacting with others. If you are able to do it as well as "them" then there obviously is nothing to whine about looking different.
"It is very hard for autistic people to learn when it is appropriate to talk to people. Because they are very rule-bound, it is best to just set a blanket rule not to talk to anyone."
Because you are a self-hater, who supports a world where you and every other person on the Spectrum are not only be repressed by the rest of the World, but where we do our own part in being repressed. You are a coward, Canby, just like Tao in Gran Torino, before he learned to act like a man and not take shit.
I think I exited my "seeing the people" phase around age 4, and my social anxieties didn't really build up until I was about 14, and realized I was different and couldn't get laid.
Sorry, but that's impossible unless you already had social anxieties before 14. You might not have recognised them until then, but you had them. You had to. You wouldn't be human if you didn't. Getting laid is not an important issue.
I cannot talk to them, because I am autistic and they will never have sex with me. That really makes me wanna kill myself, but I brave through it.
You are over estimating the importance of getting laid - again. It will keep on stressing you out and a cure won't change a thing (forgeting for the moment that there is no cure). You can talk to them. You just need something that you'll have whether you're on the Spectrum or not - guts.
Plus, it gets about 120 degrees there. Too hot for me.
That's one I'll buy, because I hate hot weather like that as well!
Being a baseball fan is the one thing that keeps me normal in this world.
Correction. It's what keeps you relaxed - not normal (because there's no such thing).
I've thought about a career in sports management, but that usually requires going to college, which I cannot do because I'm autistic.
Rubbish! Jake Crosby's done it. So has Andrew. So have many other Aspies. That again goes back to your chief problem - guts. Not Autism. GUTS!
I know that, for me, it is my social anxiety (and not my autism) that needs to be cured. However, reading Jonathan's heartbreaking life story made me sympathize with him, and wonder if his life will be my life as well. I feel that if I have a decent life, I will be doing a disservice to all whom are pro-cure.
That first sentence is right (which is why I talked about guts). Mitchell is a bad example because he was brought up in a different time. It's not the 1960's. It's 2010. The world has changed. Mitchell hasn't. His calendar still says 196(sub number here) in his mind and he refuses to move forward from it. His story is completely irrelevant in the 21st century. Those who a pro-cure deserve to have a disservice done on them - because their desire is a waste of valuable time and energy - better spent on improving oneself as one is and demanding the room to make it so.
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